The Dodon Controversy: Episodes 90-91

Krillin and Chaitzu's fight gets started, and the feud between turtle and crane intensifies.

Art by TenshiArt

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Becoming Saiyans, a Dragon Ball Rewatch podcast. And we're back. I'm Truman. And I'm Jesse. And this is Becoming Saiyan's Dragon Ball Rewatch Podcast. On today's episode, we watched episodes 90 and 91 titled The Dodon Wave and Counting Controversy. In the first episode, it was aired in dis uh Japan on December 2nd, 1987, and December 13th, 2002. Whereas the s the next episode was aired December 9th, 1987, and December 16th, uh twenty and two. So we took about a three-day hiatus there. Um jumping into the differences from the manga, uh the scenes of the non-combatants trying to eat while the you know finding the burn person is filler. He the fighter appears again only to collapse in the stands. That's also exclusive to the anime. I don't really like how this fandom page jumps back the wiki fandom or whatever jumps back and forth between calling something filler versus exclusive to the anime. That's just something I gotta bring up here because they'll say it's exclusive to the anime. And then another episode is like, no, it's complete filler. And it's like, it's the same thing. I don't understand. Um the next one is Yamcha talking with Pu Puar is filler. Bulma launched Pu'ar weren't present for the match in the manga because they were at Yon they were with Yamcha. So everything with the pom-poms and Shin telling Krillin to forfeit, or ordering them to tell Krillin to forfeit, all added. When confronting Goku on his relationship with Tao and the manga, Tien doesn't ask when their encounter occurred. Um, just a small change there. Chiatsu firing at fires at Krillin way more in the manga, uh, or m way more than in the manga, and almost gets him wrung out. And, you know, the r frustration, all that stuff with Shin um doesn't occur. Krillin moving left and right so quickly that Chiatsu can't keep track is all added in. A character resembling Konkichi can be seen in the background while they're eating, which I that's a part of the trivia, which I think is kind of cool, you know. Or his brother Konkichi came to watch him fight. It's kind of a fun little headcanon. It's like after all that, like, I'm gonna become a teacher three days later. Nah, I'm back on my crap. I'm heading over there to see what's going on. Jumping down to differences from the manga and counting controversy, um, we have in the manga the tournament's events and happenings, all that, you know. So Bulma Launch Puar aren't there because they're in the hospital. Um, the group goes to tell, you know, Yamcha about like, you know, Krillin's victory. Um, you know, all that stuff was added uh because, you know, all that. Um The Hotel, Shinseen giving Chiatsu math lessons, um, and then Shin later goes out to in the that night to try to assassinate Goku. All of this is all at the basically the second half of the episode is all added because none of like it couldn't happen because it there wasn't a night, basically, is what they're saying there. Krillin jumps up in front of Chiatsu in the main manga to fire his Kamehameha, which is where which get uh where in the show he gets behind him. In the manga, Krillin's Kamehameha knocks off Chiatsu's hat. In the anime, the hat stays on until he removes it uh to do the drill attack. The drill attack never appears in the manga. Uh Shin's flashback to his time training Tao, all added. Chatsu's paralysis lasts longer in the anime. Yamcha's nightmare about Krillin dying was all added. Um jumping down to trivia, Shin's flashback uh to his time with Tal is silent in the Japanese version, with no mention to how they ended how their relationship ended. Um, and then talking about how they became there was embitterment that went towards each other before they went their own way. This marks an inconsistency with how the relationship is depicted in the blank blank blank, where Shin encourages blink blink blink to blink blank. By contrast, in the blue water job, Shin fondly blink b blank blink bl blank blink blink. All this is added in to uh tell you stuff that happens later on. Uh Yamcha's nightmare about Krillin dying comes to blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. Um as I was reading, I was like, wait a minute. Um Krillin asks Chatsu various mouth problems. The latter's vest is colored black instead of the usual green, but changes back when Krillin knocks him out of bounds, basically. Yeah. So it's like just like one of those like color inconsistency things. So um with that, Jesse, we don't have any more here. So, previously on Dragon Ball. We get ourselves a two-part fight episode where Krillin takes on the mysterious Chatsu. Um, Krillin seems to have the upper hand in fighting prowess, but that doesn't matter when you're able to use mind and telepathy, you know. And so Krillin is put on put way behind uh the eight ball because Chatsu, first of all, is flying up in the air. Krillin can't hit him up there, and secondly, Chatsu's raining down hellfire called the Dodon Wayrave.

SPEAKER_01 5:09

Um says Ray at one point, and then he says wave when he charges it up.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

We don't really know what the difference is, but anyways, that happens throughout the episode. Um and fun part is we also find out that uh Shin was is uh mercenary Tao's older brother, and now Shin wants his people to kill Goku and all the other Turtle Hermit students as an act of vengeance against Goku. Um and eventually tries to take it into his own hands before uh Tien uh Tien drops in and says, Hey, we are not gonna do that. We let me kill him in the finals. And Goku's like, I don't, you know, I'm gonna meet you in the finals and I'm gonna beat you for Yamcha. And he's like, I don't care what it takes to get you to the finals, we're uh we're fighting in the finals and I'm gonna kill you. And that's what you missed on Dragon Ball. Also, by the way, Krillin wins the fight using math. Jesse, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Uh really enjoyable two-fight episode. A two-episode fight. I said we said two fight episode. Two episode fight. Um it's kind of exactly what you expect from a two-episode fight, where it's like there's so many twists and turns of like, who's gonna win? Oh, this person's gonna win, oh, they're gonna win, and then it just keeps bouncing back and forth. Really entertaining. Really good episodes again. So it's a it's a tournament arc that's well done again. It's they're good episodes.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

That's why he's the goat! The goat! Krillin, my boy, Krillin coming off the top rope. He doesn't care about Chia Tsu and his drill attack. He doesn't care about the Doden Ray or the Dodom waves. All he cares about is simple arithmetic. And you know what? That gets him a spot in the semis with a chance at the finals after Pom Put beats Goku in the next round. That's my prediction. And then Krillin is able to win that and move on to the finals and take out 10. Putting one on for all Yamcha. And that's my prediction. Obviously, you know, I love these episodes. My boy Kay Rillin gets a show off. I'm all about it.

unknown 7:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:12

Krillin fan club.

SPEAKER_01 7:14

I have to admit, I have to admit, I legitimately didn't think he was gonna win. I just felt like they were setting up too much, like the the Chiatsu's power and how much he antagonizes Krillin. Yeah. And I'm gonna do that.

SPEAKER_00 7:28

Krillin gets one back. You're you're too dumb to win this fight. You don't even know what nine minus one is.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

You don't. He does not know that.

SPEAKER_00 7:36

You don't even know what four plus three is without using your fingers. I bet you would say nine plus ten is twenty-one, huh? Wouldn't you? Man. Krillin, Chef's Kiss. Oh man, these were some good episodes for me. Uh I'm just gonna be here gloating about Krillin the whole time. Yeah. Krillin, mastermind. G one of the greatest intellects on this uh in this show so far. The way he's the way he's like, think about back to Fortune Teller Baba. He's able to like outsmart all of like most of those fights, you know. At least the first three.

SPEAKER_01 8:10

He's able to figure out a way to outsmart the ones that like are just straight gimmicky fights.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah, he's able to outsmart them.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

Um he the ones who are like based on actually being good, fast, and strong, obviously you gotta beat you gotta beat them and you know, like ability. But the ones where it's just like you just gotta beat the gimmick. Yeah he figured out the gimmick quite quickly.

SPEAKER_00 8:28

He's smart. We've seen him use his intellect multiple times before. He also kind of helped Goku in the last the first tournament saga a bit with his like you know thinking out and strategizing in certain fights. Yeah. Like, Krillin is he's so fun to watch, and he's so good.

SPEAKER_01 8:46

He's nothing but he's he's he's you know, you can't say he's not clever.

SPEAKER_00 8:50

Yeah. And like, you know, maybe maybe he's not as strong as Goku, but he's certainly smarter than Goku. And maybe that'll be what it takes to win. I mean, and also, not to mention, he's the fifth ever user of the Kamehameha. Now getting up there with Jackie, Roshi, Goku, and Yamcha. Which does mean fighter.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Does mean every current turtle, turtle hermit, uh, trainee and turtle hermit linked person knows how to do it. Yeah. That we that like that we've had a chance to see do it.

SPEAKER_00 9:23

Yeah. And obviously, like Jackie says, man, if he had just trained a little bit harder on that, you know, he would have been he could probably turn him to dust. But we don't need that at this moment. We just need Krillin to be goat. And I'll tell you what, Krillin, he's the goat. He's the greatest of all time. Six-star Dragon Ball in my heart, right there. Mr. Krillin. These episodes just make me so happy. I'm over here sm cheesing like a buffoon. Krillin.

SPEAKER_01 9:55

These episodes are for the Krillin lovers.

SPEAKER_00 9:56

And number one Krillin fan in the world over here. You'll never catch me lacking on Krillin over here. I love me some Krillin. But let's move on from him for a moment, um, even though there's not a whole lot going on. I thought it was silly with the Oolong cheerleader squad. That was a pretty fun little gag. I don't care what was added for the anime. That was fun. He's like, you know, they need our help, so let's all cheer for him.

SPEAKER_01 10:19

Let's just see how committed he was, too. That's that's a fun one.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Yeah, Krillin was fully committed to the to the bit. Or oolong was fully committed to the bit. Yeah. Um, and but the they're trying to get food beforehand, and that guy's just completely burnt to a crisp underneath all those bandages. I thought they brought bandages back from the dead. That was what I thought had happened there for a minute. Yeah, I thought Fortune Teller's Bob was like, I'm gonna bring my third fighter into this ring, we're gonna try to win on some things.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

He's like, Nope, he got burned by the Dodon right here.

SPEAKER_00 10:49

Yeah. Which that we like, this was a point of contention for me going into this episode. It was called the Dodon Wave. And when I said it last week, uh or earlier this evening for you, Jesse, behind the counter here, but for you guys last week. When I said Dodom Wave, I was like, Dodon, that sounds familiar. I just had totally forgotten that that was the name of Tao's thing. But they call it the Ray, they call it the Wave, back and forth throughout these episodes.

SPEAKER_01 11:15

It seems like he says Ray when he's just like it's just firing a beam. Because Tao doesn't really charge it up when he uses it. Yeah, he just uses the ray. So, but then when like he like kind of I know what a spirit bomb is. When he kind of spirit bomb charges it up and then releases it, it's a wave. When he goes to try to like vaporize Krillin when he's trying to do the Kamehameha.

SPEAKER_00 11:38

But that's uh that's when I was like, oh right, that's why it sounds familiar, because uh uh Goku's like, the Dodon Ray. That's like what Tal used. And then TN's like, how do you know the name? Like it's Batman where it's Martha, Martha Saver! Um, but then Tien being like, that was the greatest man I ever knew. Like, if that's the greatest man you ever knew, there's no wonder why you're such a jerk. No wonder you're so messed up. T or Mercenary Tal. He's he's the glowing light, the idol for you in this this world. If only I could just be a little more like him. He was so great. If only I could just be a little bit more like him. I could get paid to kill people. Um but then we get flashback time, because then the fight continues, but it's not really much of a fight at this point. It's just um Krillin rolling around the ground avoiding shots who's done on rays.

SPEAKER_01 12:32

And so realizing I can't keep fighting like this.

SPEAKER_00 12:34

So then Tien just kind of like flip walks around and talks to Shin about it, and then Shin's like, Oh yes, I remember Tao. Tail Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:45

Luke, you killed my brother.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Before he does that, we get the flashback where he's, you know. Or no, we this is where we got the flashback where cr uh Goku tells him like what happened. Like the flashback isn't actually the second episode where we get to see all that.

SPEAKER_01 12:58

Yeah, so like the first episode like is when Tien comes over and Goku's like, yeah, this is how this is how I know Tao. I I killed him. And she was like, You really killed Tao? I was like, Yeah, how long ago was it? About three years.

SPEAKER_00 13:10

Yeah. And this is where Jesse was like, yeah, I'll kill him. Like it wasn't on purpose, you know. He I was gonna let him go. He threw a grenade at me.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

It was like, yeah, I killed him before my recent training arcs. I definitely like I could definitely easily have beaten him without like just knocked him out without killing him, but yeah, I wasn't quite strong enough back then.

SPEAKER_00 13:28

Yeah. And this was where I, you know, I wrote this is when TN walks out and talks to Shin. We don't get the flashback until the next episode.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

So he walks away, and then as he's walking away, uh Jackie's like, I don't know if you know what you did, Goku. And Goku's like, Why? I was like, well, because Tao is Shin's younger brother.

SPEAKER_00 13:45

And you're like, what? And I wrote down, but you didn't see that coming. Because I wanted I wanted to let Jesse go on this one.

SPEAKER_01 13:52

This was yours, so that that's an insane, like, insanely fun little reveal where it's like, oh, now he like serious like because like originally he was just like toying with them because it's like, well, I want to embarrass Roshi, but now he's like, I want to kill you because you killed my my brother.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Yeah. We meant and then like in the second episode we find out they might not have been on the best talking terms, but brother is still brother, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:15

It might not have been on the best talking terms that make it probably makes it hurt worse. Like there's nothing that can make you hurt worse than like your last words being to somebody like I hate you or whatever. Yeah, like like your last words being in anger or hate before someone goes and like passes away somehow, whether it's and usually killed by a grenade kicked into his face. Usually in those situations, like if that's happening to you in real life, it's they usually go out in a really tragic way too. Yeah. So it would like it's just double.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

You know, like getting grenade kicked into your face that you threw at somebody.

SPEAKER_01 14:44

Yeah, while jumping away because you because you fake surrendered at a child.

SPEAKER_00 14:48

Um and that before we get all the way to like you know, Shin's thoughts on it, on on Talas stuff, to finish the last the first episode. I wrote down it just really feels like Chiatsu is like when you you're playing zombies with somebody and you just they just keep getting the ray gun out of the mystery box, and they're just like, this is so much fun, and you're over here like I can't get a gun, I'm just knifing. And like that's what Krill can be like. He's got an M1 Krill carbon. Yeah, Krillin's just running around with like his pistol and a knife, just trying to survive, while Chatsu's like, ha ha ha, ha ha ha. Just like blasting. Anyways, I started blasting.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

Yeah. Straight up. So it feels like.

SPEAKER_00 15:27

Yeah, he's just up in the air, just like shooting, shooting ray gun, shooting ray gun, shooting ray gun.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Um, I also thought the reveal, like the first time I watched this, was really good. Before we it's really well done. Like it is, it's it does you don't really see it coming.

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Um because you do personally feel it like Tao's a just, you know, just the villain of the week in the day.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Like the villain of like the la the second half of the arc or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_01 15:52

Yeah, like I keep like it's he's just like, okay, this is the new person. Goku has to surpass a power level.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

It's in the middle of the Red Ribbon R army saga. He's already beaten like the other soldiers. It's like, well, we gotta bring in somebody that's not one of the soldiers because he's so strong, you know. And they do the whole power scaling thing where he beats up the last bad guy really easily to make him look tough. It's like a you know, all that kind of stuff. They they just set them up like that. And then to come to find out, now he's funneling the vitriol towards Goku from the grave.

SPEAKER_01 16:24

Now he now he's like an extremely important plot point in the story, and it's like, oh no, like this is gonna be that's a great way to do that. It makes it tougher because you know now it's like when you're playing D D and like you make a choice in like the fifth session, and then it's like, oh yeah, in the 50th session, the choice you made right there is now gonna bite you in the butt because you like like you either killed somebody and it's like this where like uh someone close to them comes back for revenge, or you spared somebody and now they're coming back even stronger to kill you. Like it's like it's those type situations where it's like, oh yeah, like I almost forgot about you. What's your name, Steven? It's like I'm gonna kill you.

SPEAKER_00 17:03

I haven't been training. It's uh it reminds me of the uh the adventure zone where Barry blue jeans just keeps popping back up. And it's just like a like a random guy from the first arc of their first thing. And he like eventually, like as they keep going, like they do other stories with like different characters and stuff, and he just becomes like an intradimensional being that floats, like just shows up in random other stories. It's like there's a guy over there, and he's just wearing blue jeans and a you know, a white collared shirt, and they walk up and they're like, What's your name? And he's like, My name is Barry. And they're like, Oh gosh, dang it. Um, but that that's a total side tangent.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

It is blue jeans are very blue. Yeah, they're blue. So he's he's berry blue jeans.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Yeah. Um, and then but that that leads us to our next episode. We get the nice move from Krillin where he starts jumping around like he's like, wait a minute, he couldn't remember left and rights. This is where he starts putting together the plan of how he's gonna win this fight.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:57

And he's like, well, what if I just start jumping around all crazy too fast? He won't be able to know which he'll have to think about his left and rights, and like in case somebody yells it to him, and I'll be able to get the upper hand. Um and that's why he's the goat. And then we jump forward, we get the Dodon way of getting the super powerful. And Krillin's like, well, I mean, Yamcha can use the Yamcha's the weakest one of us, and he can use the Kamehameha. I can use the Kamehameha. And this is where we get our fifth user of Kamehameha. And Jackie's like, no, Krillin, you're too weak. Krillin, you can't.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

Apparently he knows about the training, so I guess him and Roshi talk.

SPEAKER_00 18:34

Yeah, I mean, obviously. Uh you think Jackie's gonna show up without a scattering report on who his competition's gonna be? Yeah. He obviously knows all about the crane stuff, too. It's weird that Shin doesn't recognize him, though. You would think that like Roshi and Jackie being so close, like Shin would recognize him.

SPEAKER_01 18:53

But it also seems like Shin doesn't really see Roshi unless like they're entering a tournament together.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

That is true. Like, ever since whatever happened in the past between these two, they don't really talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 19:02

Which I'm sure it'll be revealed in time why they like fell apart and made their own places and whatever.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

Yeah. But, you know, then I'm like, man, Chaosu's just cheating. Because, you know, he starts using like the paralysis, like tummy ache power. And I'm like, this is come on, this is just cheating.

SPEAKER_01 19:20

Come on.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

Come on, let's let's throw some fists.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Technically, he's not using a weapon, so everything's legal.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

No, I understand, but it's it the the the ethics of it is like, man, y'all are cheating. Later on, like way later on in like June.

SPEAKER_01 19:35

Night just sounded like the like the Germans in World War I when the US came over with shotguns, like, what how are we supposed to fight in trenches when they just got a they got a trench gun and just pumping us? Yeah, pumping around the corner. No. That's a that's a by the way, that's a funny actual like historical fact. I know about flex. I'm talking to the viewers, I'm talking to the listeners. It's like it's a funny actual like historical fact you can flex to like your teacher. Like, yeah, uh, like, I know the Germans started complaining about shotguns because the US were too good at using them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

But for me, it's just like later on in the shows when we get to more tournament sagas, because obviously this is Dragon Ball, we're gonna do tournaments, even in Dragon Ball Z or in Fiona. They start banning like the use of like beams and stuff. Like it's like the characters all set around and they're like, this is not gonna be fun for us if we nuke the entire stadium. So let's like not, you know. Just fist and cups. Just punches and kicks. And flying, we'll allow flying. But like, no beams, no command meas, no dodens, no special whatever the heck you want to call them. Yeah. We're not using any of those. We are just going straight hands and fists and legs. Headbutts if you have to. Yeah. Um, which I think, you know, that should become a running thing for the whole tournaments. Tournament standards need to be like no crazy mystical stuff.

SPEAKER_01 20:58

No crazy abilities that can like instantly kill your opponent if they're not prepared.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Yeah, because like the time like Chiyatsu could have absolutely killed that guy. Like the mysterious burnt person. He could have completely killed him. I mean, he basically ruined his entire life. He's burnt for to a crisp underneath there.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

But like, he what are we talking about here? Like, that guy was probably just like a boxer. He's walking in like, are you ready to fight Marshaking won't fight? I'll give him a f- Oh my god! I'm mounting! It's Rocky Balboa, like, oh give him a fight. I can oh no, what is going on?

SPEAKER_01 21:38

Yeah, it it is pretty pretty egregious. But also gives you an insight into like Again, another thing of like the shin, like the crane gang, you're you just roofless.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah. And then we get I'm spoiling it, the worst part of this episode for me is the Krillin gets knocked out of the ring and you're like, what the hell? And then Yamboy's like, oh my gosh, it was a nightmare. Okay. And it's like, what are we doing? And then we flash it. It's right out of the it's right out of the swap out of the transition out of the brake. And it's like, what are we doing? What? What is this? Why we didn't even need that. That was so it Okay. Uh rant on it. It was completely unnecessary. And a like a bogus thing. Because like going into it, it's like they still seem like Krillin is on the ropes, but he's not out of it. And just the like cut to such an anticlimactic ending, like, doesn't make any sense. You're sitting there like, what did I miss? Like on the one. And then like before you even have a chance to say what did I miss, Yamcha wakes up and is like, oh, it's just a nightmare.

SPEAKER_01 22:41

It's like if you're kind of watching and super invested, it's more annoying than it is funny when it's supposed to be met like a haha, funny hot pump faked you. It's like, no, like why why would you waste like two minutes of animation time? Yeah. What are we doing? And we lost.

SPEAKER_00 22:55

The thing is, is the way Chiatsu gets knocked out later on, it's the it's like almost one for one frames. Like, it's just like they recolored Krillin into Chiatsu. Like they just replaced the colour. It's like this would be a really funny joke if we did it. Like, that's what it is. And it's like, why did you even what? Why are we doing it? Sorry, this is far and away. This is far and away the worst part of the tournament saga so far is that fake out. It's like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 23:22

We can get past, we can get past the little perv moments. Yeah, I mean get past the useless, pointless, dumb flashbacks. Yeah, but what are why? Why? You don't need to fake out.

SPEAKER_00 23:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:34

Just the fight is we're already needed Incineroar fake out. Yeah. Intimidate.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

We're already invested in this fight. Because like Krillin's on the ropes, what's going to happen? We don't need to see Krillin like get knocked out of the ring and then turn around and is like, oh, it was just a nightmare. We're good.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Oh. Thank goodness that didn't happen, right?

SPEAKER_00 23:55

Which I mean, I guess to be fair to these people. We have a similar thing at one point with Bulma. Like in the the filler episodes. Yeah. Where like Bulma just wakes up from a nightmare where it's like, oh my god, what just what was that? I saw Goku down, like getting a tree dropped on him or whatever, you know.

SPEAKER_01 24:11

But that actually happened.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

It's not it's not a it's not it's like it's like a premonition of like what's happening. Yeah. Or like a vision of what's happening. Yeah, premonis. Premonis is a prediction for the future.

SPEAKER_00 24:22

It just I really am just like, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_01 24:25

It's it's such a waste of time for like a funny, like I guess it's supposed to be kind of like funny joke pump fake moment. That just doesn't land the way it's supposed to. Now it might land for some other people. Yeah. But it's like it's just because we complained about the pacing uh last last episode about like I forget 100% what we're complaining about. Um my brain's fried. No, you're right. But it's like we we we complained about the pacing on some of the stuff over there. Yeah. And it's like this completely breaks up the pacing of the episode.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

Because now you're just like Yeah, because now we're like like literally I'd miss like the next minute or so of the show because I'm just sitting there like, what the heck was that? You know? I mean we don't miss much, it's just back and forth with the fighting stuff again. But it is like, what the heck? You're just shell shocked for a second.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Yeah, it's like what what why was that there?

SPEAKER_00 25:16

Yeah, it's like, why was it there? What was it supposed to be? What were you thinking about putting it there? It's far and away the worst part of these episodes, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

It's an easy pick. It's such an easy pig.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

Um, but then we get to my favorite part, and it's math lessons with Krillin.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

Math Lessons with Krillin, because you realize Xiatsu is Chiatsu might have them might have him in a few different categories. We know he doesn't have them in intelligence.

SPEAKER_00 25:42

Yeah. Like maybe Chiatsu seems to be one of those like that like floats by on pure skill alone. Like that's the kind of archetype for his character. Yeah. Where it's just, I'm gonna float by on just pure skill. Like I'm I'm more so much more skilled than everyone else I run across that like I can just do whatever I want and nobody can stop me because I'm just that skilled. Meanwhile, Krillin has had to like, you know, he started out at the bottom of the Orin Temple. He's been looking up to Goku this whole time. He probably feels to a certain extent that like Yamcha has passed him.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Um, and so he's had to, like, you know, beg, start, borrow, and steal to get everything he can possibly get, find every possible advantage he could have. And to see him be able to like figure out the line to get through this fight and win, is it's so good. I love Krillin, and I love as character where like you can just see yourself as Krillin is like, yeah, you're playing as playing it like you're cocky and that you're good, but you can definitely tell like the crippling, like, I don't know if I'm supposed to be here.

SPEAKER_01 26:48

The inferiority, like the fear of inferiority.

SPEAKER_00 26:51

Yeah, and like that, maybe even the bit of imposter syndrome from how the last tournament went, where he was literally probably the third best fighter in the tournament. He sees these two new people show up, he sees Yamsha has gotten better, he knows he's gotten better, but is it enough to keep him where he was at?

SPEAKER_01 27:06

You know, keep him in a top four position.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Yeah, and so for him, it's just, you know, and to like for him to like really lock in and get past Chiatsu. It just it really feels good, and it's like vindicating as a Krillin fan, you know, and as a person who like really loves this character, to see like the just like the pure grit and determination to push through that fight and get there, you know. And then we also then later we get the fun cutaway to like the the um math time with Shin, where Shin's like, I can't believe I have to do this. What is two plus two? Don't use your fingers, you dummy Chiyatsu. Don't use your fingers. And like, yeah. And we also cut back to like them all telling Yamcha what happened, because Yamcha's all laid up in bed.

SPEAKER_01 27:57

Yamcha's like, oh good, he won.

SPEAKER_00 28:00

I w I'm glad we got another win. We're one and one, turtle versus crane. Which, you know, who knows how the the tournament will end up at, you know. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

I still I I'm sad my bracket busted. Um I didn't have faith in Krilla. I'm sorry about that.

SPEAKER_00 28:16

That's what you get, little you have a little faith.

SPEAKER_01 28:19

I just I just it just felt like of you know, they're just gonna let the cran both of the cranes get to the semifinals. Yeah. But I guess it also makes sense to have one crane in the semifinal.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Actually, no, because I'll have because this way you'll you'll get you're guaranteed to have one turtle in the final. Yeah. Because either like like you're guaranteed you we can almost assume that even no matter how strong Jackie is, like, he's he's not gonna get through TN on a mission. Yeah. And but this way, even if Goku, and this is assuming Goku beats Pompa, like we can't overlook the re the 116 matchup here.

SPEAKER_01 28:58

Um but yeah, I don't think we're gonna I don't I don't think Goku's prime Purdue choker. So this is Yeah. Um but I guess if we should say Prime Virginia choker, because I was actually well actually no, no, I'll say Purdue, because Purdue should you're playing against sorry, I'm gonna rant about some college basketball. You're playing against the shortest team in the country, the literal shortest team in the country, with the tallest average team in the country, and you don't only get beat, but I think they like they either got out-rebounded or they only out-rebounded them by like two. Like the rebounding margin was like two. It's like you don't get you're stupid. But yeah, it's it's yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

But anyways, like we're ass this is us assuming that Goku's gonna win his first matchup. We haven't seen that yet. But let's just assume that Goku wins. You're guaranteed to get one turtle in the in the finale, and we can all we can also kind of assume that Tien will figure out a way to get past Jackie in some way.

SPEAKER_01 29:52

Yeah, we assume we assume it's gonna be a TN Goku matchup because it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 29:55

But it could be Tien Krillin.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

I respect Krillin a lot. I also feel like bad for discounting him in this matchup, but I don't think there's a realm or universe unless Goku just like gets poisoned, which it seems is impossible to really do to him. Like, unless Goku throws the match for Krillin. Goku is going to be in the final. Especially now that Goku is also on a mission to meet Tien in the final.

SPEAKER_00 30:20

That is true. He is on a mission. But you know what missions can change? I don't know. When Krillin shows up to the match. Yeah. My boy Kay Remon.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

Uh it before Truman has a really sad time because Krillin lost.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

Um, but, you know, I love, like, so then, like, before we get there, we've been talking about this grudge match that's gonna be taking place in the finale. We haven't told people why there's a grudge match happening in the finale.

SPEAKER_01 30:46

Yeah, we've alluded, we alluded to it in uh recap. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:49

But so Shin sneaks out that night to assassinate Goku.

SPEAKER_01 30:54

But he he doesn't realize he is caught by Tien sneaking out.

SPEAKER_00 30:58

Yeah, and this is the thing I read.

SPEAKER_01 30:59

Which is a big point of what's about to happen.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

Yeah, which I I I love that Tien's third eye opened first. Yeah. Like I thought that was cool. That was a nice thing. His third eye, his third eye was open. He heard what was happening.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Third eye's there to improve like uh passive perception. Yeah. And so if he's a DD character, you gets he gets a free like plus five to his passive perception.

SPEAKER_00 31:19

So he like he's able to hear it and he he tails behind Shin. Shin doesn't know that he's tailing behind him. Um But he does take time to fully get dressed first so that he's fully in like you know, crane or getting it. Tip top shape.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

Yeah, yeah. Otherwise, known as animators don't want to make an entire new like uh uh character. They don't have to make an entire new like clothing character. Yeah, character model or whatever. Yeah. Character model with new clothes to make the fight happen, like to stop the fight or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 31:49

But Shin breaks into um Goku uh Roshi Krillin's like hotel room or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 31:56

I assume Yansha probably would have been in there too if he wasn't in the hospital.

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Yeah, because I think the I think we saw it before that like that um we we didn't ever really I don't think we ever saw where Oolong and Turtle were sleeping, but it was like uh R Launch and Bulma have their own room and then Roshi and the boys have their own room. Yeah, we just are just wherever. They're in the bathroom. Oolong, turtle, and put the animals in the pen. Puar is on the room. Yeah, well I yeah, Pu'ar just sleeps with is always around Yamcha, so probably sleep with Yamcha. Yeah. Um, but they're all asleep, and Shin breaks in and goes right after Goku to kill him, like in cold blood. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:37

He's like, this is for my brother. Lucky Goku just being Goku rolls out of the way just in time. Yeah. And then everyone wakes up and it's like, oh, what's going on?

SPEAKER_00 32:46

And Roshi falls out of bed, and they all start running off the game. Yeah, and then Shin takes off, and Krillin and uh Goku track him down, and they're about to do some move from a game that Roshi taught them once, which I would have loved to have seen whatever that was. I don't know what it was, but it seemed like it seemed like ping pong was what they're going for. It's like I'm going first. I'll kick them to you, you'll kick them to me, we'll just have fun. We'll we'll juggle them like it's Smash Bros. Like Yep. Um But then Tien drops in just in time to be the voice of reason.

SPEAKER_01 33:17

Like as Goku and Shen are going to like each other. Start a knockdown drag out in the middle of the streets at 2 a.m. Yeah. Tien shows up and just like, no, we have to finish this, we have to settle this in the ring like mid.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Tal deserves better than this. Yeah. We the vengeance cannot just be on Goku. It also needs to be on Roshi. We need to work.

SPEAKER_01 33:36

Roshi obviously put him up to killing Tao. I'm like, no, he did not.

SPEAKER_00 33:40

No, Goku was just like on his on his own.

SPEAKER_01 33:43

I love the amount of times people like assume about things that Goku's doing and stuff.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

Yeah, and like I I also enjoy that like shit, like Goku tells him it's like, I didn't want to kill him. He like forced my hand. I was either kill or be killed, and I ain't gonna die. And Shin's like, I don't give a crap about that.

SPEAKER_01 34:00

Neither one of us is gonna sit here and surrender given the circumstances that was going on.

SPEAKER_00 34:05

He faked a surrender and then threw a grenade at me. Like at that point, it is time for him to die. And Shin's like, I don't give a crap what your reasoning is. You killed my brother and prepare to die. Which is fair enough. Yeah, which again, based, fair. Um and uh like it's just like that's just a cool way of thinking about it. Like, Shin is a villain, he doesn't care about that. And then we had one good line where it was like, We're gonna get I'm gonna get to the finale and we're gonna fight for Tao. And Goku's like, no, I'm gonna get to the finale, but it's for Yamja. And he's like, whatever it takes to get you there.

SPEAKER_01 34:41

Yeah, whatever, whatever it takes.

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Yeah, whatever it takes to get you there. And it's just it made us crack up because we're just like, he's just chucked. It's like Shin's like, or Tien's like, I don't have time for your nonsense. Whatever. Anyways, uh you woke me up. I'm cranky. I'm gonna go back.

SPEAKER_01 34:54

However, it's gonna work, I don't care.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

Yeah. Just make it there so I can kick your butt. Yeah. Um, but let's jump into our uh predictions, Jesse, from last week. Unless you have anything else to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 35:05

No, I think I got all my predictions wrong actually this week.

SPEAKER_00 35:09

You had Goku and Chiatsu winning in their matches this episode.

SPEAKER_01 35:12

Goku didn't even fight yet.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Yeah, Goku did not get to fight. And Chiatsu lost. Yeah, shouldn't have shutting a bat against the gaffer, you know.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

And I think for the countdown thing, it was something to do with Goku, so it doesn't even worked out either.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Yeah uh yeah, you said the do well you said the yeah, you said the Doton Ray was Chiatsu's secret weapon. That one is that I did get that one around. Um, but then the judge counting error problem was like gonna be during Goku's thing. Because you said like maybe like Goku gets knocked out or gets put to sleep or something, and then the counting doesn't take place the way it's supposed to.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

But actually the counting error was just Chiatsu's dumb and has an error in his ability to count.

SPEAKER_00 35:48

Yep. Um so with that, Dusty, your bracket did bust because you bet against the boy. Um you shouldn't bet against the boy.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

I should I should have s known that they would probably advance him again because he advanced in the first tournament.

SPEAKER_00 36:01

Yeah. You imagine how much how like how psychologically messed up he would be if he gets knocked out. Like after he would he would be so deflated. Yeah. At least now he can at least say like he made it to the same round he made it to last year, and he just got unlucky twice, you know?

SPEAKER_02 36:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:16

Um But Jesse, looking for predictions for next week, we have episode 92, Goku enters the ring. And we have uh episode 93, T and Shinon versus Jackie Chung.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

Yeah. I think uh I think Goku wins pretty handedly. Actually, you know what? Pomput probably does put up a decent fight, but Goku, I think it's more of like a similar to the Jackie man will fight. Where he's just more just like filling out how hard he's gotta go. Because he knows the next couple of opponents he's got like energy a little bit. He's gonna have to fight him pretty well. Yeah. Um because him and Krillin are gonna have a good scuffle, and then whoever he faces in the final, if he beats Krillin, that is gotta have a pretty give him a pretty good fight. Yeah. But it is something where he's gonna win pretty handily. Pompa might not even get more than like five hits in another.

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Yeah. Okay. And then what about TN versus Jackie as the name of the next episode?

SPEAKER_01 37:18

I think it's gonna cut off as a two-episode fight.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

Two episode fight on the second one.

SPEAKER_01 37:22

Which sucks because that means we won't finish the episode. We won't finish the fight on the next episode.

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Yeah, that will kinda suck, but we gotta have to do what we gotta do, you know.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

But it just seems like every fight from here on out is probably gonna be at least an episode and a half.

SPEAKER_00 37:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:39

You know. So, outside of the next one.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

Yeah, I do feel like Goku is probably gonna wrap his up in one. Um, I know we've been saying it, like, presumably if he wins, there's no way Pomplet's gonna be able to beat Goku. Like, let's be real here. They haven't focused on him for one millisecond of this.

SPEAKER_01 37:57

The only times they focused on him was uh making him draw the number. And when he walked in, the girls complimented him. Yeah. The girls complimented him. There's no way this guy's this this guy, like this is Especially looking looking at like what how he's dressed and what he wears. This man is purely like just I'm gonna get up close and I'm gonna punch you.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah, he's uh he looks like he's like a jujitsu fighter or whatever, you know. It's like no.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

He's not even probably gonna be he if there's anything you can keep up with Goku in, it's the speed, and it's because Goku's holding back.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Yeah. So Jesse, worst part, easy. The fake out.

SPEAKER_01 38:33

Stupid fake out, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

I don't I'm not even gonna make you pick another one.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Like that's that's easily the I don't think there's anything else I could feasibly pick, because everything else, every other part of these both these episodes were pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 38:43

Yeah. Speaking of, the best part is that's why he's a goat! Krillin! Krillin, Krillin, Krillin, Krillin, Ruoooo!

SPEAKER_01 38:53

I think the best part is I mean for me, I'm gonna let you keep Krillin.

SPEAKER_00 38:57

No, I'm not taking all of Krillin, because that's like both episodes. It's just uh anytime Krillin's on screen is the best part.

SPEAKER_01 39:04

Uh because I'm actually gonna take seeing that like T In actually respects like the tournament. He's like, no, this has gotta be finished on the f in the in the arena. Like we gotta do this in the arena. Not letting Shin just in Goku fight in the street.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

We did kind of overlook it, but I did have thoughts on it. It it feels like he's telling Shin, like he's telling Shin what he needs to tell Shin to make him back off in that moment. But it's really just he wants to fight Goku in the ring. Yeah. Like he wants there to be rules, he wants the fan fear, he wants to be like named champion. And he wants it to happen the way it's supposed to happen. But he's telling Shin, like, no, it would be more sweet if I kill him in the ring.

SPEAKER_01 39:43

I just find I just find it nice to like see.

SPEAKER_00 39:46

Yeah. And him being the voice of reason in that moment, like while his like master's like on edge is really nice.

SPEAKER_02 39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Um, but obviously my best part, I just gotta pick a Krillin part. Uh, honorable mention to all the other Krillin parts I don't pick. Um, but for me, the best part is Krillin like doing the command mayon and jumping it up in the air and like being able to hit Shotsu like dead on with it is just great. And it just shows like how far along he's came in his journey. Because the first time he saw Goku use it, he's like, that's impossible.

SPEAKER_01 40:16

Like only how am I ever gonna learn how to do that?

SPEAKER_00 40:18

Yeah, and it's like now we're three years later, and he knows how to do it. Yeah. And it just that makes me happy.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

Three to three and a half years later, Giberta, however, you see time frame goes. Yeah, but it's the first time he sees Goku use it is against the car.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

That is true, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:33

So that was a little while ago.

SPEAKER_00 40:35

But yeah, so that's my best part. And Jesse, do you have anything else you want to bring up in this episode?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Uh I mean, not really. I mean, the it's just like these episodes are good. I'm loving this tournament arc. I'm gonna I'm gonna go as far as say better than the first one. Which it should be. It's the second one. Yeah, it built you should your tournament arcs should always be better than the last, or else they get really bland and boring.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

Yeah, well, I mean, the way you think about it is like the first one, we we got introduced to some new characters, but it really was just we were watching, you know, Krillin, Goku, Yamcha, and then oh my gosh, there's a new character named Jackie who seems really important, you know. So these are those are our four main ones. We added two new ones that are rivals with backstories and stuff.

unknown 41:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:17

Um, and then we have a couple of joke fighters thrown in there. You can't have everyone, you can't have all eight be named characters this early on. We don't have enough named characters, you know. Um it'd be weird to bring like Aider in or something, you know. Especially because he's a pacifist. Uh Silver, Silver could come back for one of these. Yeah, maybe that'd be fun. Like Silver's like, I survived. Um but I am here. Yeah, like the the is building on the first tournament saga, and it's building on a little bit of the stuff we've gotten beforehand, uh like leading up to this. And I I, you know, I'm a sucker for tournaments, we say it about every time we talk about these tournaments, but we're suckers for tournaments, and it's really good.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

We are we out there people who are like just love watching fighting animes. Yeah. Like I'm I love Kirchy Kaisen, it's really fun. I just re-binged all the way through solo leveling. Yeah. Because I finally got Crunchyroll back, so I was able to actually like sit down and watch it again. It's been been about a year since I watched it. Basically, been about since uh the episodes are coming out last year that I watched it. Yeah. Um, so we this is just the type of stuff we love. We love my hero. That's like the first one I got you hooked on with. Yeah. Like I recommended that to you. I sadly haven't finished it yet.

SPEAKER_00 42:28

I said uh I I looked at him and I said, I ain't into that nerd stuff. And then, you know. I was like, just watch, just watch it. And you're like, just give it one episode. And after the end of the first episode, I text him and I was like, dang it. Like, and then then that led us to watching all this and led us to here.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

So that's what I'm saying. Like, if I didn't do that, we wouldn't have this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 42:46

Yeah, because I had always watched I've watched I'd watched some beforehand, but I like after watching my hero, I was like, what should I watch next? Well, let's start with like the number one anime. Like the number one recognized, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

Well, recognized and recommended thing ever, which is obviously this, right here.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Yeah. And I started, I literally opened up the first episode of Dragon Ball Z. And I like from what I understand, like a lot of people just start with Dragon Ball Z, but I started that episode and I was like, who the heck are these people? They don't want to explain to Jack Dilly's squad about who any of these characters are. And so I was like, I gotta get some backstory on these. And you found out there was backstory because you came in. Then I went back to Dragon Ball.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Um I Which I I have to say, um I like there's stuff, there's stuff where you can just be like, I just skip like the first series, because the first series sucks, or like it gets really good at this point in time. I'm always the type of person who's like, I'm committed from the beginning. Because I know people are like, well, skip the first season of the office, or skip the first season of Always Sunny. Yeah because you know you you want to get to you know, the part where they have their footing and that yeah, like um because honestly, when when Danny DeVito joins that towards the Always Sunny, that's when it gets real fun. Yeah. Obviously, there's kids in the audience that please don't wanna make them let them on. That is not a showcase. That's not a kid's show. Arguably I was right at the edge of being old enough to watch that because I started watching that about 17, 18 years old. Yeah. But yeah, like I've always wanna start at the very beginning. Because I do think truly it's fun to go on the adventure and see everything get better and better.

SPEAKER_00 44:19

Yeah. And but yeah, especially with like Dragon Ball Z, a lot of people tell me that like when I've talked to people, they that they just started with Z. And it's like I I tried that and I watched like the first two episodes, and I was like, they don't explain anything about like who Goku is. There's another character that we meet later on in Dragon Ball that is there. It's like, why are these people so angry at each other? Like, what is going on? Like, I thought I knew these people and I don't. And so like then going back to watch Dragon Ball and being able to understand what's going on, going into that Dragon Ball Z, because it almost is like a straight continuation.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

Yeah. The the only argument I will give for that is a lot of people who got hooked on Dragon Ball Z first were kids in our like age bracket that just kind of turned on tsunami and that was that was what they were watching. Yeah. That's what it was showing. So you just started watching from that point on. Yeah. And then now that we're into like more recent years and stuff, like now we can sit down and watch things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Yeah. Streaming services definitely made it a lot easier for everyone to go back and watch the shows, especially stuff that they missed. Uh that might be the only positive that they bring. Um but in general, I I I do agree with you on that. Um and especially because like I was five, you were one when like Dragon Ball was airing originally on like over here in America. Yeah. Like there's no way we were catching that, you know. So yeah, definitely getting some uh like being able to go back and watch it, you know. I just thought I would start with Z was the whole point there, but going back and rewatching it, it makes a lot of sense to you you should probably start with Dragon Ball. At least like the last couple of like sagas, if you don't want to start in the beginning. Because it just hard cuts to the next thing and you're just kind of caught off guard. Um, but you know, we're here to help you with, you know, keeping caught up with all the other sagas. So we're about, you know, a little over three, you know, a little over three-quarters of the way through the sagas. Like Tien is the second or the third to last saga. So Yeah. Yeah. The Tien saga is like the third to last saga.

SPEAKER_01 46:26

Oh, this is the saga we're in now?

SPEAKER_00 46:27

Yeah, the one we're in now is the third to last saga of Dragon Ball. But I didn't realize it was called Tien. Yeah, it's called the Tien Shinhan saga. We said that, yeah. Remember we said that. My brain, my brain'cause you said that you there's no way Tien could be the three-eyed guy, because that that name's too cool for him. Was your legit quote. Um, but with that, we'd like to say thank you guys for listening to us. Um you can follow us uh on on Twitter, on Instagram, on YouTube, and on TikTok at Becoming Saiyans Pod. You can also email us at becoming Saiyans at gmail.com. Uh also love to take a little bit of moment of your time to say download, subscribe, rate, and review. It really does help us out here. Um But until next week, I've been Truman. And I've been Jesse. And the journey continues.

SPEAKER_01 47:13

Bye.