Then There Were Yamcha and Tien: Episodes 86-87

The tournament saga continues, as we get to the top 8! 

Art by TenshiArt

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:00

Welcome to Becoming Saiyans, a Dragon Ball Rewatch podcast. And we're back. I'm Truman. And I'm Jesse. And this is Becoming Saiyans, a Dragon Ball Rewatch podcast. On today's episode, we watched episodes 86 and 87 of uh titled Then There Were Eight in Yamcha vs. Tien. The first of those episodes came out on November 4th, 1987, and in America December 9th, 2002, whereas Yamcha vs. Tien came out November 11th, uh in 87, and America, December 10th, 2002. Getting into a bit of trivia and some uh uh differences from the manga. Goku and Chapa's match last slightly longer in the anime. Uh Jackie's fight with the Grizzly Bear Man is shown in full detail, while with the former wondering if Goku's strong enough to to beat him now, and then visualizing Goku. Uh the manga only shows the end of the match with no explanation of how Jackie won. Also, while Jackie hits the bear once in the manga, he strikes him three times here. Uh the opponents that Goku and the others face in the preliminary are not depicted in the manga. This includes the Tian and Chiatsu uh observing Yamcha. The 90-minute break in the preliminaries doesn't happen. And everything happening outside with the prizes, not in the manga. Nam is purely filler and he does not appear in this version in the manga. Trivia is Yamcha is called fighter number two when the opponent ran out of bounds, but Yamcha is number one. Also, when Yamcha is fighting a black belt and the bracket is shown, two advances, even though the announcer says one is the winner. In two scenes while he was mixing the food, Chiyatsu seemed to have peach-colored hands instead of white hands. The episode title may be a reference to the In Then There Were None novel by Agatha Christie. The song the song Mizazi Tinkachi can be heard while they're fighting in the preliminaries. While the Funimansion dub retained the song, the Blue Water dub replaced it with music uh from Dragon Ball Z. An orange temple monk appears in the pub that the turtle school goes to. He's later seen being defeated by Goku. Roshi is disturbed by the thought that Goku could be stronger than him, as always a shocking revelation. But as far back as even the Commander Red saga, he speculated that Goku might have surpassed him. In the original Japanese version, he merely muses that he is in trouble. Jumping into the next episode and differences and stuff is the scene showing or the scene showing clattered amongst the tournament staff and audience, all that stuff is not in the manga. Oolong and Puar searching for Roshi's not in the manga. Shin coming up to make fun of the turtle school is not in the manga. Jackie Chong saying that Shin has warped the students' minds is not in the manga. Tian uh complimenting Chia Tsu for rigging the draw only to scold him for floating the papers isn't in the manga. Uh Shin requesting the tournament sponsor to give an embarrassing announcement is not. Scenes of the fighters in the waiting room while the announcer is speaking to the audience. No. In the manga, a foxman was the one to express surprise at the competitors being mostly from the Korean and Turtle schools. In the anime, the human uh spectator says this, though the foxman can be seen behind him. Goku's flashback to the Inoshika show is not in the manga since it was a filler episode. Uh, on to trivia. In the Funimation dub, the scene where Yamsha first fights Tien is completely silent due to the due to the cutting out of the Japanese insert song Wolf Hurricane in the said scene. Uh the scene of Bulma and Oolong trying to locate Master Roshi was silent in the Japanese version. Uh during Oolong's search for Master Roshi, a girl is seen briefly who resembles Suno, only she has crimson hair. Uh I did kind of notice that one. Just before the first match r begins, some of the Cheering spectators resemble other characters. Like um there's Antoine the Great, and there's also one with black Antoine the Great with black hair, and another one that looks like Ron Fawn wearing uh sunglasses. When Tien covers Chiatsu's head in the English dub, it says it's to prevent the latter from catching a cold, and the Japanese tells him not to stop pointless squabbles. The tournament announcer, after recognizing Goku Krillin, Yamshan Jeki-chun, was re uh was replaced with Goku complimenting his suit. Manwolf had a distorted voice in the original Funimation, but the remaster took out the distortion. All the better as far as I'm concerned. Um but that is all we have. So, previously on Dragon Ball. The preliminaries are going, and is Goku in peril? Heck no! He's gonna beat up that guy super easy. He ends up winning pretty pretty handily, and then we just kinda watch more preliminaries happen until we finally get down to the final eight. And our final eight are Yamcha, Tien Shinhan, Jackie Chun, Man Wolf, Chiatsu, Krillin, Goku, and Pomput. Um, speaking of which, that is the rec that is the level, that's what the bracket looks like. It's Yamcha vs. Tien, Jackie vs. Manwolf, Chatsu vs. Krillin, and Goku vs. Pomput. And then we get about five seconds of the Tien vs. Yamcha fight, and that's what you missed on Dragon Ball. Jesse, go for it.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

Incredibly unsurprising that there's a lot of fluff in these episodes as far as like anime exclusive. Do I hate it? Not necessarily. Because it is giving like s in the realm of the nom stuff. It's giving more stakes on like a reason an actual nice reason outside of the um the the squad rivalry. The squad rivalry. Now we're gonna be able to do that. Especially for Goku, outside of um I just blank you said it the pig's name.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

The Oolong? No. Nom Tien. Oh Inoshika.

SPEAKER_01 5:58

Inoshika show, yeah. Like he's like, why are you hurting your friend?

SPEAKER_04 6:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:05

It's like it's giving him more stakes of like, oh, I really hate these guys. So I just like these guys.

SPEAKER_04 6:09

I'm not a fan of these guys. These guys are bad guys.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

So I don't hate that. I I don't I also don't hate the whole trying to find Roshi. I don't I think it's a little long in the fact of like why'd it have to end with an Oolong moment?

SPEAKER_04 6:22

Yeah. Like We were like, well, Jackie, you know, Roshi is missing, and Jackie is also not around to make those moments because he's known for those s a little bit from the last tournament. Yeah. Uh Shin is too busy trying to help jokingly find Roshi. So who's left that's perverted? I guess we gotta send Oolong into the girls' bathroom.

SPEAKER_01 6:41

Because we haven't focused on Shin enough.

SPEAKER_04 6:43

Yeah. Um, but you know, first thing my first note is is just that I love that the intro's back. But before we get into all those, my my first thoughts are similar. It's just, yeah, some of the stuff, like the fluff isn't bad, but a lot of it is a little long in the tooth, in my opinion. It sticks around a little too long.

SPEAKER_01 7:03

It's like it's like, why is it that there's an episode literally titled Yamcha versus like Tien? Yeah. And we only get to see that fight for like three minutes. Yeah. And then it's like, find out in the next episode. And I know that's a whole Dragon Ball thing of like leaving you wanting more and like leaving off at a cliffhanger, but you could have left off on a better cliffhanger than like they fought for two and a half, three minutes. In the end, and they're super, they're super even. And now you have to watch them fight next episode. But because we already used uh Yams T and for this episode's title, we can't even title the next episode that.

SPEAKER_04 7:40

Yamcha vs. Tien, part two.

SPEAKER_01 7:42

Yeah, yeah. I guess you could do that.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

But yeah, it's it that was that's my big thing. The first episode, I literally wrote, man, this episode is packed, you know? Like this is a this is a insanely packed, uh, hefty, full of stuff episode.

SPEAKER_01 7:59

They sped through a lot of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 8:00

There was a lot, a lot happened. We went from like the full prel prelims to eight, basically. Like, not really, not all the way to eight, but most of the way to eight. And like the first episode. We had the food scene where they went, like, had the break. We had almost another fight between Tien and Yamcha there, which is more and more evident that they were gonna fight in the first round. It's like they are at each other's throats. Like, like you didn't even have to rig it.

SPEAKER_01 8:27

Like, we wouldn't even have cared if you didn't rig it. Like, we just knew it was coming.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

Yeah, that was fate. Like, fate would have intervened there to be like, you guys have been I think.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

The other ones you probably needed to rig, but there is no way, like, knowing how like how much Dragon the Dragon Ball universe loves to just put two people together that that hate each other. There's no way they weren't gonna fight anyways.

SPEAKER_04 8:47

Yeah. Um, but maybe not the first round.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

They might have been a semifinal belt, because you know, yeah. The only people who I think are possibly gonna make the final are Goku's gonna be in the final, and it's who is he fighting Jackie or is he fighting Tien? And the problem is it could be either, because I think they're on the same side of the bracket.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

They are, they literally are on the same side of the bracket. Goku next round is either gonna fight Krillin or Chiatsu. Yeah. Like that's presuming that he wins against Pomput.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

But seeing uh character we'd have we don't know his name going into this tournament. Yeah. Oh, I guess because like wolf, like man wolf or whatever. Yeah, wolf man or wolf man wolf.

SPEAKER_04 9:23

Well at least they gave him like some pathos. I've always been claimed to be a wolf man, but really I'm a man wolf. And I hate that people keep calling me wolf man. How dare they! Also, he seems to have beef with Jackie Chung for whatever reason.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

Yeah, I guess we'll figure that out.

SPEAKER_04 9:39

Yeah, whenever whenever we get to that. But yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:43

Like, whereas with Pomput, it was like you literally all the only time you you hear his name is when they tell him to come up and grab it, and when they yell out everything. There is n you you don't even see him outside of him grabbing the piece of paper, which is where we learn they're rigging it, and where and when uh he uh gets uh gets announced like he's fighting Goku, and that's what that's what it's out.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

He kind of looks a bit like um I was I was trying to think of it. It kind of looks like the way he's he's um styled, kind of looks like that Naruto character who does the fit, like he does the rap.

SPEAKER_01 10:17

Bruce Lee Broccoli Broccoli, I think, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

And he but he's got like a lot of things. Bruce Lee is an actual person.

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yeah, he also I assume Broccoli is probably based off of Bruce Lee's.

SPEAKER_04 10:26

Oh what? Who would have guessed that? I don't know. I've never seen Naruto. That's a blind spot for me.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

But yeah, I uh it it's a funny thing to say like neither one of us is watching.

SPEAKER_03 10:36

Becoming the Nine Tail Fox uh Naruto rewatch podcast. Or a Maro a Naruto first watch podcast.

SPEAKER_01 10:43

Yeah, it's a first watch at that point. There's not a whole lot of rewatches we can do. This is kind of the main rewatch we had that like is going to take a long time.

SPEAKER_04 10:50

Yeah, it'll take us a really long time. But after that, we can always branch out to other stuff. By the time we get there, we could also do a rewatch of MHA, because we both have seen that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 10:59

Oh, you I I have only seen that up to like middle of three to four.

SPEAKER_04 11:05

But by the time we get there, you could finish it, you know. But anyways, yeah. That's a segue. That that's a sidetrack B plot for this story. But the main thing here is you at the stable getting the main thing here is is I the intro with the the gong and building the the symbol is back, and I was so satisfying.

SPEAKER_03 11:24

I was like dun dun dun dun dun dun dun.

SPEAKER_01 11:28

There's something so satisfying about like something like that. Like it's it's such a great way to set the mood for like a tournament saga.

SPEAKER_04 11:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:35

It's like we're getting into it now.

SPEAKER_04 11:37

And then we do have to talk about the the Goku King Chopper fight. I know I kind of jumped over it in the recap, but there's there's some cool stuff that happens in this. Um number one, there's a good joke from Yamsha where he's like, what, does he get all of his fighting skills on wholesale? Yeah. Because he talks about him being an eight-arm technique instead of two, you know. I thought that was a good joke. Um. And then my next note is just what great breath control. And Jesse, I'll let you take it. I want you to describe to the audience.

SPEAKER_01 12:06

So this fight went as exactly how I expected, especially in the manga, learning that it's like super, it's as short as I predicted it to be. And it's just this is still like I I would still count this in the category of what I predicted. Like Goku just a very good thing. Goku's I literally wrote down Goku is just playing with his food. Like, like, Goku probably could have beaten this guy in the first five seconds if Goku wasn't here to like kind of have fun and like judge how how hard he needs to punch him. Um besides just going full strength and killing the guy immediately. Yeah. But like, Goku has this man on on strings from minute point, like second point odd odd, you know, why or whatever.

SPEAKER_04 12:46

As soon as the fight starts, he punches him in the face. Like as soon as the fight starts, Goku is just like, you're not beating me. There's a man who hasn't been wasn't touched the last time he was here, literally gets punched in the face.

SPEAKER_01 12:57

Like, I hate having to throw this out there. For 95% of this fight, it's just Goku raging the rage baiting this man and like trying to punch getting just yeah. Yeah. It's just like there's no other way to say it. He's just rage baiting him for most of this fight. Because go uh Goku just knows he's gonna win. But like how he wins is just the most Goku way possible. Like he he flies up, jumps up in the air, and everyone's like, oh, Goku messed up. He's he messed up.

SPEAKER_03 13:27

He's left himself vulnerable, he's in the air now.

SPEAKER_01 13:29

And he starts like descending it like he pushes off the ceiling first. Pushes off the ceiling and starts descending at like an insane acceleration. And like King Chapas gets ready to like really just absolutely throw one. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:45

Do an inverse of what we see later in the flashback of what Goku didn't.

SPEAKER_01 13:48

Do the inverse of what Naam happened with Naam. Yeah. It's like Goku then just breathes so hard, like with his breath, that he stops his momentum, like using a jetpack in a video game to s to limit fall damage.

SPEAKER_00 14:05

Yeah. And then kicks him out of the ring, like 50 feet out of the ring.

SPEAKER_04 14:11

Yeah. But the announcer said that he he won due to knockout. That was a ring out. That's not a knockout.

SPEAKER_01 14:18

Well, to be fair, if he got knocked out, he he probably got knocked out on contact. So technically, he was knocked out first. He all he just landed also outside the ring. So technically, he's not wrong that it was a knockout first. It's just he was moving so fast that they kind of seemed still simultaneous for anyone not at like Yamsha level.

SPEAKER_04 14:39

Yeah. But that that that feed of strength from Goku is just insane. Like the abil like think about how much of breath you would have to use to like keep yourself from falling if you're doing like a trust. But I I'm telling you just for like normal people, how hard you'd have to breathe to stop yourself in the middle of like falling just for the five.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Let's look at this, like an ad what's in the average like adult now, like five, eleven, yeah, like like buck eighty, yeah, buck ninety. To stop that forced like a trust fall falling towards your face, or like falling towards your face, to stop that, that's a lot of math I don't want to do.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

But it it's going to be it's like dang near impossible to s fully stop your momentum.

SPEAKER_01 15:23

It is impossible with the limits of an average human, like a non-superhuman, to do that.

SPEAKER_04 15:29

You would need like a like a jet spray or like a helium tank that you shoot out that can help you split.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Literally, as I said, it's like that's what you can do in a video game with like jetpack mechanics. Yeah. Like I I love, I've played actually played a games, like I've played a couple games like that, where it's like if you just jetpack at the right time, you just don't take fall damage.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

Yeah. And meanwhile, Goku is not just falling at this at like gravity. He is he is accelerating downwards. He's going like past at gravity level, and then just blows all of his oxygen out of his body to stop mid-air and then just kick this guy.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Like just I I ugh.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

It is an insane, it's an insane move, and no wonder Jackie Chung is absolutely shook by this to the point where he's having like hallucinations of fighting Goku in his next round.

SPEAKER_03 16:19

Because he's just shook. He's frozen.

SPEAKER_01 16:21

It it's in I'll say this, like, we we've made like it makes reference to like Roshi's being considered. Like, I I I I want to stay with the Jackie Chung thing, but even the animes is like, no, it's Roshi.

SPEAKER_04 16:33

No, the narrator, but what does the narrator really know? Does the narrator know everything? Is he an omniscious narrator? Or is he just seeing what everyone else wants him to see? Because as far as I'm concerned, Jackie Chung is his own character. We discussed this last time, and he's like third cousin twice removed from Roshi. So that's why they look so similar, and they have similar mannerisms and similar tone of voices. They're related. Anyways.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

But anyways, like it it even states it's like he's made observations of like, I think Goku is getting close to my power, or even possibly surpassing me. That was like twenty, thirty episodes ago. I don't know how long ago that was.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

And that was over three years ago.

SPEAKER_01 17:17

Yeah, like over three years ago in Universe. And now we're sitting here at a situation where it's like of course he's caught up to you. He do you just haven't spotted him. Like he's not just caught up, he is way beyond passion.

SPEAKER_04 17:34

He was nearly on your level the last time you guys.

SPEAKER_01 17:37

The only reason why you won is because you just had more fighting experience.

SPEAKER_04 17:41

And he's been out in the world for three years fighting demons and stuff.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

While you've been training Yamcha and Krillin and everything else.

SPEAKER_04 17:48

He's been fighting chaos gods, he's been fighting demons, he's been uh, you know, fighting i indestructible pig monsters.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

He's also he also escaped the unexcapable trap of the gourd.

SPEAKER_03 18:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:05

He escaped the unexcapable magic artifact. Probably one of the most OP magic artifacts I've seen in just like normal fiction.

SPEAKER_04 18:14

And then after he's done with his fight, he looks to his friends and they're like, man, don't use up all your techniques. And he's like, trust me, that wasn't even the tip of the iceberg.

SPEAKER_01 18:22

This man's holding back.

SPEAKER_04 18:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:24

That wasn't. The breath technique wasn't like an like a super ultimate move. That breath technique's just like an average Tuesday for you?

SPEAKER_04 18:32

That's my cantrip. I can use breath control. Um, and so, but yeah, it's just, yeah. Anybody would be shook, especially Jackie Chung, who took this guy to it took Jackie Chung to the absolute wire, where they fought for days and nights, you know, just for, you know, for it to end up being like just a hairwin. And then we get meanwhile, you know, Goku trains for three years. We don't know what Jackie Chung does in between the time between the two the two tournaments. But we assume he's training.

SPEAKER_01 19:04

Like he's doing some training.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Probably not as good as Goku's training, let's be totally honest.

SPEAKER_04 19:09

Um, but just Goku's just on a whole nother level. It's gonna be a shame if he does end up losing this, because like how much further can he go? You know? Like he's already like at the tip of the iceberg, it seems. And like to the level he's able to reach. Like, yeah, it doesn't seem like he's able to go past this level of the state.

SPEAKER_01 19:30

And the problem is, like, knowing how Goku's like alien ancestry is, it's like Goku is of an alien race, to my understanding. Obviously, we'll get more into that in probably hundred Dragaball episodes.

SPEAKER_04 19:43

I don't think they ever like they bring up he's from space, but I don't think they ever like name it name the aliens and or anything until Z.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

I think Z, like, isn't like the first uh like part of Z kind of explaining his heritage and have to deal with all that stuff like that's right.

SPEAKER_04 19:58

Yeah, I'm not I'm not gonna spoil it, but he fights he fights he fights somebody who knows him as like a baby. You know, I he's like I was there I was there when you were shot off.

SPEAKER_01 20:09

You know like I I that's that was my understanding is like that's of like Z is like that's when it starts to get into like his full like lineage and things.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:17

But it's like knowing that lineage to a to a bit, to my limited knowledge. It's like he is basically born of like super fighting race. Like he's like he is born into a race of aliens, like in a species of alien that live their like birthright is being the like universe's best fighters, and having the potential to be the universe's best fighters, yeah. Like that is that is the thing that their race is known for throughout the entirety of the universe. Yeah. Is that do not get in a fight with these guys because they will kill you.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

And they won't even bat an eye at doing so or break a sweat.

SPEAKER_04 20:59

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this talks more to like once we get to Z I'll have more thoughts. I don't want to give anything away. Yeah, I'm not giving anything away.

SPEAKER_01 21:07

I'm just giving my my limited understanding of kind of just being around anime and and and the internet, like kind of just picking up bits and pieces.

SPEAKER_04 21:15

The osmo the cultural osmosis that you can have.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

Of of what's in my brain from that stuff. That's my understanding.

SPEAKER_04 21:21

I have thoughts about the way they handle some of that. We'll get there when we get there. But in general, you're you for the most part wide sweeping, you're right. Yeah. Your osmosis has worked.

SPEAKER_01 21:32

Um, I'm sure the particulars and how it's described completely maybe off base here or there.

SPEAKER_04 21:38

In the vague, wide-reaching amount, yes. You know.

SPEAKER_01 21:41

So like obviously, three years of intense just real life experience for him at an age where like he's starting to mature real good into being a oh like a universal like galactic fighter.

SPEAKER_04 21:55

Yeah, he went from like kid to teenager in this moment over these three years.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

He hasn't hit a growth spur. quite yet. But you can tell he's he's getting taller.

SPEAKER_04 22:02

Yeah, he's gotten he's tall. We already know he's gotten a little taller because he's a little bit taller than that.

SPEAKER_01 22:07

And I know Goku ends up being a regular sized adult. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

We're not there yet, but yeah he will get there.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

I've seen regular size adult Goku. I know that.

SPEAKER_04 22:16

Yeah. But yeah, like it's just he is he's insanely strong. He's insanely powerful. And he's only in that like with the with the confines of his body he's about at his peak. Like there's not much more he can go past this. So if he doesn't win this tournament it's going to be a dang shame.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Yeah. Well it it it is just the fact of just like getting back to the whole breath control thing. You didn't scale it down to the size Goku is. And yes the amount of energy required to stop him at that pace at that size is less.

SPEAKER_04 22:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:53

But it's still but it's arguably harder for a body of that size to generate the power necessary than it is for a body the average human male size. Or the average human just average you know adult human male or female size body with the lung capacity and things like that. It's like it's ridiculous the feat is already pulling off and we're only about like halfway through a little over halfway through Dragon Ball. It's like in I know Z just gets exponentially stupider I guess in the funniest like funnily funny like fun stupid but stupider. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

Yes. Um my next note just to just to try to get the train going is just I love the diversity of fighters. Like we just see a montage and it's like cat monster, boxers we had a sumo wrestler last episode. Like random beasts of whatever genre nom wait wait what nom you're back nominated. My fr I had a note that said nom and then I had the note that says what do you know narrator because that's when we get the narrator trying to trying to assume genealogy and stuff you know and then it's like nom being mistaken and then my next note was nominal classic during the recess.

SPEAKER_01 24:20

Dude that's that's up there for probably one of my favorite moments.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

Yeah we had two launch classics launch classic number one where they're hanging out at the like the the prize thing and she just pulls out her beretta and just absolutely destroying this like gun shooter game you know and he's like hey what are you doing and she's like give me my prize or else you know and and then it's a bad prize so she starts shooting again.

SPEAKER_01 24:47

Yeah. He's like why you got why you got a bunch of stupid prizes or whatever. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:51

And then you have the one in the next episode that's really awesome or towards the end of the I think it's at the end of this I think it's at the end of this episode because they have another El Launch classic where they're like we gotta get up we gotta get some good seats and she's like Yeah I have a oh I know we I know how to get good seats or we know who can get and that's the one I'm thinking about as like my favorite obviously there's a couple things that are favorites we'll get to that towards the end of the episode.

SPEAKER_01 25:14

But I'm just pointing at like you know that's that's up there for me as like an honorable mention if it doesn't get picked is the the second launch moment coming up here soon.

SPEAKER_04 25:23

I love Shiatsu just being a savage with the hair too where he's like baldy and he's like who are you calling bald you're bald and he's like no uh takes off the hat he has one hair and it's just what the heck are we doing? Hey but he's not bald yeah and then Tien being like put your hat on you're gonna catch a cold and it's like is this your baby Tien? Is he a baby?

SPEAKER_01 25:50

Is he a child?

SPEAKER_04 25:51

I mean obviously he's a child I think very tall a very small little boy but and then that moves us into our next episode where we find out that Chiatsu has telepathy.

SPEAKER_01 26:03

Well we forgot to talk about the second launch mode. Oh yeah the second shooter one yeah which for reference as though to be fair we could probably say this every episode at any time something like this happens because sadly we live in a country that sucks at gun control. But for reference there was a you know shooting in Louisiana early I think either earlier today or last night or whatever. So we're not making light of it. We're not making light of that but it's it's hard not to laugh at this like the absurdity of this moment. Of course you don't know what the climate of especially America a country that you that isn't even making this animation when it's originally being made because I'm sure this is they didn't say anything about this not being in the Japanese or America Double Dead.

SPEAKER_04 26:47

Yeah it's it's in it's in both it's in the manga like it's it's everywhere across this is Launch Blonde Launch's like character is this is a character. I shoot first and I ask questions never yeah and so they're they're saying like we need to get front row seats so we can watch and launch is like I'll get us front row seats and she just pulls out like an oozy and just starts firing in the air I thought she was fired like automatic.

SPEAKER_00 27:09

No she's like pop pop up get out of the way it's like it's like don't worry I'll clear the crowd starts an active shooter I'm like what are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 27:19

It's it's rough to watch in 2020 2026 lenses. But it is funny at the same because in the 80s that wasn't a thing you know like I think that was a like I think Columbine was in the late 80s wasn't it early 90s. So that was like the first major one over here.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

That was the first like news breaking one obviously there were there were things before that especially I think in the 70s and 80s is when you had a lot of like big bank robbers in LA that would have like shootouts. Like the LA shootout was like mid 80s maybe yeah but like it wasn't it wasn't as prevalent and it's it wasn't every week every three day thing like we kind of sit in the current climate now.

SPEAKER_04 28:01

Yeah and but like it is like you know it's played as a joke and I think that's like you you should just take it as a joke.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

It's played over the top because in a normal world it would be like a funny over the top moment that she's just firing a gun into the air in the middle of a crowd just and just clearing people out. Just happens we live as live in an aspect I heard what you're about to say as I was proud to be phased like it it it's as bad as it sounds and as as bad as it sounds like I'm making a joke out of it we do live in a society where that just happens all the time.

SPEAKER_04 28:39

And there is an argument to be made that we've kind of been desensitized to it in a way that we shouldn't be but in this if you're watching this political either in America or in Japan you would see it and be like that's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_01 28:53

Yeah you know even like in 2002 it wasn't as prevalent as it is now and it would be like haha that's kind of funny the only part of 2002 that would make it kind of bad is you're living in a pretty semi immediate post911 moment.

SPEAKER_04 29:06

So but we're not there to talk about that we're moving on to the next episode which is we start out with immediately like Shatsu has telepathy. What the heck? Some sort of something along those lines yeah yeah some sort of supernatural powers which that allows him to entirely rig the setup with the tournament. Like I don't mind it at least it explains why it happens the way it happens. Because even if he was like even if Shatsu wasn't there to rig it this would still be the layout more likely than not.

SPEAKER_01 29:39

This is it's a it's a funny way to be like you know because cause last tournament orc you know you didn't have as many named characters to like fight against Yamsha and Jackie. And even Jackie was kind of unknown until the final final rounds like nobody was we didn't know he was now you have six six fighters out of eight that are named characters that have an investment against each other. Yeah. And the the only ones who didn't really have an immediate investment that we knew of was Jackie and Goku. So of course they're the two fighters who don't have to fight uh in like a knocked out brawl out you know grudge match with a named character with a named character. Jackie still seems to be having a grudge match against someone that who has a grudge against him but he doesn't have against them. For any particular reason.

SPEAKER_04 30:31

I'm sure we'll get there it might have like as I'm talking about it I can see where maybe a person whose transformation happens because of the moon might have a problem with Jackie.

SPEAKER_03 30:40

Yeah because Jackie blew up the moon.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Yeah now you now you bring it up yeah that's probably certainly what it is yeah he's like screw you you blew up the moon how dare you stuck in this moon I can't be a man anymore that's gotta be what it is that's gotta be what it is why'd you do that?

SPEAKER_04 30:59

You blew up the moon I feel so dumb it took us this long to put that together we're just sitting here like what is up with this wolf wanting to fight to fight Jackie wait a minute Jackie blew up the moon his whole thing is he turns back into a man when the full moon for one night every every month when the full moon is up yeah I would feel kind of annoyed if I can't be a human male man yeah well I wouldn't want to be a human male man if I could be a male man I want to be a dog male man you want to bark at me I'm gonna bark at you back woof woof put the paws up put them paws up woof woof sorry sorry about that that that was a bad joke I bought joke that was a bad one and then the next note I have is the matchups which we already stated before. Yeah we stated before because I assume this is going to come up in the predictions overall now that we know you can add these to an arc prediction like a sub-arc prediction is who do you think wins each match I guess but we'll get there we'll save that for predictions but I just want to add like I have my picks of who I think is going to be the final and who I think is going to win the final my next note is that these map these uh flashbacks are unnecessary both of them where we flash back and see the whole non-Goku fight yeah I'm like why I I understand I understand why but it's like why and then jumping two episodes or three episodes ago when the Eno Shika show shows up it's like why we were just there we don't have to jump back to that one the Eno Shika show one well I I think that flashback is kind of Goku telling Krillin about the fight because when he flashed back the first time to that fight when he saw him in the ring he didn't tell anybody about it.

SPEAKER_01 32:42

He was just sitting in his brain so I think that one can be explained because like when it cuts back from it Krillin has like a shocked look on his face and it's like kind of reacts to it like Goku's telling him the story for the first time of why Goku's like no he's a pretty good fighter is like how do you know Goku? I'm like well I fought him when I was hungry and he beat me technically but by legal by a legal definition he beat me. The the Nom one I understand because it's been like 40 episodes at least since we saw Nom yeah I I get that still it's just like it is annoying when you get a when you waste time on flashback I saw the Enushi could show one like two episodes not even two episodes again. And the only reason that's the only reason why I think that they're showing it again.

SPEAKER_04 33:22

It just it bothers me because it's like in with like the full scope of this episode and we get three minutes of the TN versus Yahoo and you have you spend a minute and a half showing a scene we saw two episodes ago and then that we saw two episodes before that. And it's like why why do we keep showing this it's like um I have this problem I've watched these like you know the Disney original shows like um the like descendants you know like as an example each descendants movie at the end of the movie when it's the all is lost main character sings a song where she's sad about everything that's happened it shows the entire flashback of the time so in the first one they show the entire first episode the first movie again in case you fell asleep for the first hour and weren't watching it they are like here you go here's flashbacks of everything that happened and it's like what are we doing the second one same thing but now first and second the third one two seconds of the song shows the like a a clip from the first a clip from the second and then the entire third episode or third movie and I'm like what are we doing here? This is ridiculous and it's it feels like that's what's going on here. It's like why do we keep showing the this random made up character that didn't exist except for in the anime and this is the third time we've seen this scene and I'm like what are we doing here? It doesn't make any sense and it's not even in the manga because this didn't exist in the manga. And it's like what are we doing? I don't care if he's explaining to Krillin just have him say yeah I fought him he beat me like cut back to the fight I don't want this I'm mad about it.

SPEAKER_01 35:06

Well like have him explain it while like the like you know it's faded in the flashback it's a bit yeah that could be a good way to do it. Yeah where you don't waste as much time doing it you just like fade in the flashback of him getting the tree landed on whatever yeah yeah I I get it and I I will say like I agree on the point of it is annoying knowing that like the title fight we get to see three minutes of at most. Yeah and it's just are we too we could have seen more of the fight we could have spent so much more time on him.

SPEAKER_04 35:32

Yeah. And that that is my that's my bit main issue with that flashback. I don't and because of that I'm also upset about the Nom flashback. It's not as extreme as that one is for me. You're wasting time yeah for Nom it's like I understand why you're doing this you're still wasting time but I understand it's just when you compound that with the the other fight especially because they they flashback like the last minute and a half of the Nom fight I'm like you could have just seen the final move. It'd be fun yeah you don't have to show them fighting and then jumping up in the air and then Goku jumping down and all the movement and stuff you could have just shown them facing off at the beginning of the fight and then call it you know yeah um it would have served the same point as what they were trying to do of setting up that Nam is here, everyone's excited and then Tien ding near kills them.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

Yeah. But you know they don't work.

SPEAKER_04 36:27

But um the next thing I had was these I was the whole these flashbacks aren't necessary but these guys got hands. Because the fight between Tien and Yamsha at least to start in the first the first stanza of the fight is very evenly matched and very very exciting to watch. It's just two guys going hand for hand, you know?

SPEAKER_01 36:48

Yeah I I it kind of surprised me because I really did think that like well first off when I made my predictions we we know what my prediction are just for this episode I I figured we'd get more than three minutes of the fight anyways. Like it'll it'd probably be the last half of the episode of the fight.

SPEAKER_04 37:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:03

Was what I was thinking. And so they might finish it off like the cliffhanger is maybe Yam shells on the ground or something at worst. And or we the cliffhanger of you know whoever's whoever's going second is going to start fighting and you t kick off the air TN is struggling and then he says he's gonna use an epic move what's that epic move cut to black.

SPEAKER_04 37:24

Which we're trying to get a similar thing but inverted but the problem is is we didn't get enough of the fight for that mm to matter. It doesn't feel like that's gonna turn into anything you know it's like we only got three minutes whatever Yamsha's move is going to be is not going to be the end of the fight. Yeah. It's probably just going to like set up Yamsha's inevitable lu loss.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Like but we get to see Yamsha use a new thing he hasn't used before which is exciting.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

Wolf fang fist attack with wind now. Yeah the Wolf Fang fist now with wind and that's what I I wrote down no not before the new Wolfang fist attack I wanted to see it.

SPEAKER_01 37:58

Yeah um but that's basically last of my notes because that's basically the end these guys are super like like they are pretty evenly yeah even Tien has to say guess he wasn't a blowhart after all like even Tien's kind of realizing like oh no this is this is going to be harder to win than I thought.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

Yeah I might actually get a bit of a workout you know which is still him being cocky and underestimating his competition which who knows if he ends up meeting Goku in the finale maybe him underestimating his competition might be his downfall but who knows we're not there yet we'll just have to see it'll be interesting to know but that's the last of my notes I don't know if you have any other notes before we move I just wrote down like intense fight. They got hands that's what that was my acknowledgement to the fight. Um so with that Jesse prediction time Goku beats King Choppa immediately I'm gonna go ahead and count it and I don't think it's as immediate as you were thinking but I'm gonna go ahead and count it because it's very quick.

SPEAKER_01 38:55

But also with the context of they fluffed it for the anime and like in the manga it was as immediate as we were thinking we'll give it to me.

SPEAKER_04 39:04

Because they he still beats him in the first minute minute minute and a half I think final eight are named characters plus one I think we miscounted because we should have been plus two. Yeah I think there is we I'm gonna count that one because it is all of our named characters plus filler. I don't know what I was even thinking because I don't I don't remember if we counted maybe we just miscounted when we were counting because there is only six once we once you get down to it well you know what maybe I was thinking well no I would have known because Crane showed up in outside the effect Nom like and Nom didn't make it but we would have known nobody would have been like wild card Nom shows up you know I I'm gonna be real honest with you don't count it if you don't want to I'm counting it because we I we we you were right in the intent it was going to be none of our named characters were not making the I really don't want it to count because of how dumb I am for miscounting the numbers of people so here is the two that you definitely miss though. Bulk of the fight is Yamcha and Tien or bulk of the episode is that fight. It's the exact opposite of that and Tien wins the fight which also doesn't happen because nobody wins the fight we're gonna roll that over to the next episode though. Okay. But before we get there we do have to do our our sub prediction of the tournament um do you think uh and the Yamcha Tien it sounds like you have Tien winning just yeah just roll over the Tien to the next episode Tien wins and Tien winning against Yamcha. Yeah um the next one is going to be Jackie versus Manwolf. Uh Jackie probably gets more of a fight than he's expecting from from Manwolf but uh Chiatsu versus Krillin I feel like this is the toughest one of these three of these four.

SPEAKER_01 40:43

I can imagine they're going to make Goku fight Krillin. So I'm gonna guess Chiatsu and then Chiatsu has Chiatsu gets beat by Goku.

SPEAKER_04 40:53

Which I mean I guess that sounds like you think Goku's gonna beat Pomput if Goku if Goku doesn't beat Pompa I will eat a shoe so then moving into our next two fights we have Tien, the Jackie and then we have Chiatsu versus Goku. Who do you think wins those fights?

SPEAKER_01 41:16

I'm gonna say I think it it's setting that up as the storyline of this tournament arc I gotta go Tien beats Jackie in a very close matchup but I'm gonna go Tien beats Jackie obviously I think they're gonna put they're gonna have to make Goku beat both of the the students so Goku's gonna beat Chiatsu because I don't think I don't think there's a world in which Goku doesn't win this tournament. Yeah and you have Goku unless someone unless someone just like starves him for like a day or something.

SPEAKER_04 41:47

But you have Goku win the tournament as the Goku versus Chiat Chu okay so moving our the arc prediction or the episode predictions you're rolling over Tien wins the fight into the next two episodes which the names are Yamcha's Big Break and Full Moon Vengeance so what do you think is gonna happen in those two episodes Jesse?

SPEAKER_01 42:07

I'm still thinking what Tien's gonna win but it's it's definitely a lot closer than I thought it was. I thought he was gonna steamroll Yamcha coming in. And then um Jackie is kind of put in the back uh foot by uh Manwolf just because of how like aggressively mad he is about the whole moon being destroyed.

SPEAKER_04 42:31

I feel so dumb for not putting the two and two together I felt like I should I as I was thinking about it I'm like should I tell Jesse this or should we let this be a surprise? But it just felt too good to be like to leave it there. Yeah. Um but you think Manwolf gives him a fight but Jackie wins. Gives him a fight initially for the first couple minutes but but Jackie's gonna gonna end up beating him pretty well he's fighting like full rage versus tactical it's Hulk versus Thanos you know it's like yeah you know on power scaling in the comics I think Hulk's slightly well well yeah Hulk would like if we're talking just pure comics Hulk would but I'm talking more like the in infinity world yeah but it's like they're not evil footy or equal footing but Thanos is able to use his brain so he's able to beat Hulk is kind of the where it is if Hulk could ever land a punch he might win but he just can't land a punch because Thanos is the better fight.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

Yeah Thanos is it's gonna come after that works like Jack Jackie Jackie probably also hasn't beat like strength and speed at the end of the day. Yeah but but it's not as big of a gap as like most of Goku fights. Yeah. And it's also when you're fighting with full full on hatred and rage yeah you the adrenaline pumping is enough to like close a gap that small to make it smaller.

SPEAKER_04 43:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:44

Or close a gap like that to make it smaller.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Well that's our predictions or Jesse's predictions moving into the next round uh two episodes. I was I will say uh Jackie does win in the second I put Jackie wins yeah um and then so Jesse worst part what do you think that is for you I mean

SPEAKER_01 44:00

I mean it's kind of like you want to go with the obligatory, like, well, obviously it's gotta be the oolong moment.

SPEAKER_02 44:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 44:09

Even though it's not necessarily that bad. I'll I'll take the oolong moment because I know you're gonna take the flashbacks.

SPEAKER_04 44:16

Um well see that's where I was gonna be then. I was I had a I had an honorable mention, and now you put me on the spot, and I can't think of what my honorable mention was going to be. Um but yeah, it is the flashback.

SPEAKER_01 44:28

I knew I was like looking at it, I'm like, I'll take the oolong because I don't hate the flashbacks as much as you hate the flashbacks.

SPEAKER_04 44:34

For me, it's the second one more than the first one. The first one isn't bad, but when you compound the first one with the second one, and the second one would be much worse. It's like, what are we doing here?

SPEAKER_00 44:42

What's the point?

SPEAKER_04 44:44

Oh, honorable mention, I remembered it. The narrator trying to lead us astray on the identity here. Jackie Chung is just Jackie Chun. It's just Jackie, it's not Roshi. They have different Funko Pops. That is my leading cause. They don't even look the same in their Funko Pops. I I just I can't believe it, and it bothers me, and I had to say it here, as my honorable mention. Uh, but anyways, Jesse, best part.

SPEAKER_01 45:15

Uh I'm gonna go. I'm gonna take the honestly, I'm gonna take the Goku like move, like the air move. Yeah. But I will say my honorable mention is And I'm taking the launch one.

SPEAKER_00 45:29

I I hate it. I hate laughing at it. It's just but it's just so absurdly dumb. It's so absurdly launched, and it's just it's it's fun so well.

SPEAKER_04 45:40

It's totally like input with her with her character and with the times, and with the character caricature that she is supposed to be being. Yeah, it just makes a ton of sense.

SPEAKER_01 45:51

It's it it's also played and like fully comedic. Like, like it's there is no ill intent with how it is played, and that just makes it so funny.

SPEAKER_04 45:59

Yeah. I just I I love it.

SPEAKER_01 46:01

It got a pretty good chuckle out of me when she did it. Like, what really? Is this what that's what the plan is?

SPEAKER_04 46:06

Yeah. Um, but with that, I mean I don't really have anything else to say except for thank you guys for listening. Don't forget to download, subscribe, rate, review, leave a five-star rating if that's your prerogative. Um you can also reach out to us at becoming sans at gmail.com. Or you can follow us on Twitter, on Instagram, and on TikTok, and also on YouTube at BecomingSaiansPod. And until next week, I've been Truman. And I've been Jesse. And the journey continues.

SPEAKER_01 46:37

Bye.